Thoughts from an SPN fan

[moonshayde]

I'm reluctant to talk about Supernatural in my LJ. I've been mulling over why it's such an issue with me and after weeks of reflection I realized I still have no clue why.



I love the show. It's no secret that I really love this show. I still stand by my assessment that even on its worst days, SPN is one of the most well-written, acted, and produced shows on TV right now. Sometimes it's even hard for me to watch other stuff on TV because I know it just won't compare to what I get out of SPN. If I am such an ardent supporter, why can't I talk about it?

I think there are a lot of factors, but I fail at being able to express them into words properly. The whole Sam vs. Dean thing in the fandom is certainly a big chunk of it. I am very sensitive to it, so much so that it's ridiculous at times. But it's funny I should be so sensitive since I am barely involved IN the fandom. I made that a conscious effort. My over involvement in SG-1 hurt some of my enjoyment of that show so I didn't want to do it again. I stay awake from the wank and the character wars and the bashing. I rarely read reactions to the show and I avoid forums, boards, and I'm even overly cautious about chatting with people. I try to make my experience, as limited as it is, a stress free experience. I have enough of that in my life.

So, I just want to write fic that hopefully some people will like, but if not it's still there just for me. I want to make art and play with media. I just want to have fun.

Yet, I barely say boo. I'm tired of whatever I say having to be qualified by something else. I'm tired of having to defend characters or be misunderstood. I'm tired of any minor criticisms or fears I have being such an issue. Once, I might have been afraid of voicing my opinion, but I'm not afraid of my opinions anymore. I'm just tired of defending them.

Also, I do care about others and I don't want to hurt other people's feelings. So if I don't like a character, I hold back so that I won't hurt someone who does. I don't appreciate it when people come up to me and slam my fave character to my face. I don't like it when someone gets all passive aggressive about what I like and turns it on me. Therefore, I don't want to accidentally do it to someone else.

Everyone is always so on edge. I wish we all could relax a bit.

I'm a Deangirl and I'm not ashamed of it. However, I really like Sam. I like Sam enough that I get annoyed when I see him put down. Dean is always going to trump Sam for me. Always. That is just the way it is. But that doesn't mean I don't like Sam episodes or I'm not interested in Sam's arc. It just means I am more interested in Dean's.

But something else is even more important than THAT. For me, the core of this show is the relationship between the brothers. That is priority for me. I get twitchy when I see people putting down either brother, though I am obviously more sensitive when it happens with Dean. In fact, I encounter so much Dean hate that I just throw up my hands and quit. (And yes, I know it exists for Sam, too. But I am more sensitive to the Dean stuff.)

I don't want to withdraw to the point of disappearing.

I want to talk to other fans. I want to have discussions and speculate. I want get excited with like minds. I want to squee with other people. I want to have fun and I want people to have fun with me.

I just can't seem to do it. :(

Comments

[grooni.livejournal.com]

As someone who's also staying away from SPN fandom and who's been burnt one too many times in SG1 fandom, why are you forcing yourself to talk/post about it? Sorry to be so blunt, I know you like discussions, etc., but if you're not enjoying yourself 100% then just don't do it. This is your LJ, you can do whatever you want.
You enjoy fic and fanart, so post about that. Or create a SPN filter and talk with people you know and trust. Don't feel like you have to post about SPN for whatever reason, do what's right for you.
I watch stuff I never talk about on LJ and it doesn't mean I enjoy them less, just that I rather squee about it quietly.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I think you've misread me. I was just posting my thoughts. I'm not forcing myself to do anything.

[grooni.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. It sounded to me as if you were explaining/apologizing for not posting more about SPN, but I totally misunderstood.
I didn't mean to offend, sorry.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Nope. I mean, it's not like my post was explicit about it, but that tends to happen when I ramble.

I am really, really introspective type of person and I love to be able to think and write about the "why?" of everything. It's just who I am. However, being a private person it doesn't always make it on my LJ.

If this was me like one or two years ago, I would have said you read me perfect though ;)

So it's okay. Don't worry about it. I'm over it. Sorry if I was snippy :)

[autumnrae89.livejournal.com]

I don't tend to walk around the SPN fandom because of what I hear about it from my F-list and my own personal experience of watching the SV fandom implode every week. But it is like you say, you enjoy it more if you don't have someone else bashing on at you about XYZ.

I am a Dean!girl, mostly through my love of Jensen and then the complete WIN of Dean Winchester sold me for life but I love Sam. Sam is so frickin' awesome. Er, can you say brooding and pensive shoulders? So yeah, it hurts when people diss one for the other. But my Mum has it right, she doesn't care one bit about fandom/Dean vs. Sam, and she thinks Dean isn't slutty (and cares way too much) enough anymore and Sam isn't Sam anymore (he angsts too much about the blood).

I would like to speculate about Dean's full frontal appearance in that novel. *Nods* :P

So, what brought all this on? Is there wank about 4x18? I thought it was awesome, the boys really kicked this one out of the ballpark with funny. Plus it had my new love, Castiel in it so I was happy.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Oh, nothing brought this on. I just was thinking. I noticed I don't talk aout the show much. I'd like to, but I just haven't been.

I loved 4x18 :)

[lastwordslinger.livejournal.com]

This might sound weird and nothing like what you're going through, but I worry I squee too much. I see other people with complaints and gripes, and it always makes me wonder a little if I am a bad fan because I inherently cheer over (nearly) everything in the show "without question". This bugs me to the point that when people sum things up by calling them silly or gag-worthy or whatever negative phrase they choose, it makes me feel like they are insulting me by extension because I enjoyed the things they hated. Then again, that might be hypersensitive of me. :/ And as a result, I don't talk to other people about it as much as I'd like, aside from posting reviews in my own journal, that is.

Like you said, even their poorly-done episodes are better than most TV programs out there. So I can appreciate that you want to censor yourself sometimes, but at the same time, you shouldn't have to. Your journal is your domain to say whatever you like, and that includes opinions on Supernatural. ;) If others don't like them, they can skip it. That seems to be the general rule with most people, at any rate. No reason you can't do the same. :)

[dawnfirenight.livejournal.com]

This bugs me to the point that when people sum things up by calling them silly or gag-worthy or whatever negative phrase they choose, it makes me feel like they are insulting me by extension because I enjoyed the things they hated.

I thought I was the only one who did that! When I squee over something and then see people hating on it, I suddenly feel like maybe I shouldn't be squeeing. :S This is why I only ever really read episode reviews from, like, four people now.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I don't really read episode reviews for the same reason. I find them too negative. And I feel better now that I don't feel like I need to post them myself :)

[dawnfirenight.livejournal.com]

Yeah - I mean, I still post mine, but it's mostly for my own benefit so I can look back at it later and remember how I felt, as well as for the benefit of about three people I know who still read them - two of my RL friends and then the person who got me into SPN in the first place. I never cross-post them anywhere anymore, and my journal's pretty much exclusively friends-only.

I like lurking in fandom well enough, but it's when I stumble into debate/wank that I start to get really depressed, and it just ruins my overall enjoyment of something that was, originally, something I didn't really share with anyone. Fandom has its definite upsides, but its downsides sometimes get to me a little bit too much.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

It's really a balancing act, isn't it? I'm really glad I just basically stick to my flist these days. I know I enjoy things much better that way :)

[lastwordslinger.livejournal.com]

Same here! I have my people I squee with and that's about it. I feel bad sometimes for not wanting to get into the meta/discussions with my flist, but the debate just brings me down sometimes. If I have meta I feel a need to share, I'll post it in my own journal. Otherwise, I'm more apt to hide from those things these days. I also try to make a point of warning people if something is going to be negative, so they have the option of steering clear if they want. I wish more people did that, actually.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

When you have the smarts to know when you want to jump into discussion and when you don't. I think that is the most important part :)

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

The whole hypersensitivity thing is hard. I know that when I squee hard over something I loved that everyone seemed to hate, i feel funny. Also, if I hated somethign everyone else seemed to love, then it's always weird.

It's just how things go I guess.

[superbadgirl]

Honestly? You can't please everyone, and trying to do so will only end up sucking too much from you. I never expect everyone to agree with much of what I say, but I won't stop saying it because I might displease someone.

But that's just me. If you don't want to talk SPN, then simply don't. There is no need to explain why.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I was just being reflective.

I know that if I don't want to talk about then I don't have to. I just like to explore thoughts as to why sometimes.

[superbadgirl]

Oh, I know. I think my brain just doesn't work that way - if I loved something about an episode or an arc or whatever, it takes a lot for me to be impacted by someone else's view. I certainly won't enjoy something less because someone else didn't like what I liked at all. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Hmm, maybe the closest I can get is the Sam v. Dean thing, which I find frustrating and a bit confusing. But unless I go looking for it, I can avoid most of the yuck and yap without reservation on my own LJ.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I'm easily sensitive to other people's views so I am the opposite from you in that regard.

But I always ask why for everything and being an introspective type, I just can't help it sometimes LOL Though, luckily, I am also a private person so most of it never ever makes it to my LJ anyway.

[shutthef-up.livejournal.com]

Boy, I can really identify with you on this.

I doubt I will ever participate in a fandom as much as I did SG-1. Just the other day, though, I was thinking about just how much I enjoy the later episodes now in relative 'silence'.

I always wanted to be fair and treat everyone the way I wanted to be treated and without a doubt, I've gotten to know some *really* awesome people who remain good friends through it.

But... I don't want to share anymore. I don't want to have to spend the energy to defend what I like and what I don't. And for every really awesome person I know, there were at least 3 more who 'harshed my glee' for lack of a better term. And I had to keep quiet about it because I didn't feel that my reasons were defensible or I didn't want to hurt someone's feelings or harsh *their* squee.

A few months ago, I really exploded all over someone's LJ (not in my flist, so no one needs to worry) over the really tired old slash vs. het discussion/argument/wankfest. It made me realize that I'm tired of being tolerant and nice and all that crap. I'm tired of bending over backwards to be fair to *everyone*, when I"m often not offered the same consideration. Instead, if I'm going to defend myself, I have to do so in such exacting terms that it's exhausting.

Screw it - I'm done (which is pretty much what I said in that blow-up comment)

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I think sometimes it's hard to describe that odd in between feeling. The want and desire to be honest and blunt, but also to be a considerate fan. Finding that happy medium where it is natural and comfortable is hard.

Fandom shouldn't be tiring. And you're right - it's about energy expenditure.

(And I am not even talking about something specific here. I am talking about fandom in general whether it is SG-1 or some other fandom.)

I think part of it is due to being in an age where everything "has" to be PC. So if you bend over backwards to be considerate, you are thrown when someone doesn't give the same courtesy. Then it ends up where you have to dfend yourself, and why is that worth it? You should just be happy with what makes you happy and be able to express what you don't like as well.

I guess in the end I just found it wasn't worth it and just quit.

[brihana25.livejournal.com]

You know, there's a lot of us (and we all started out together in SG1, isn't that odd?) that don't get the whole "Brothers' War" crap, that don't understand why anyone could so vehemently hate either one of them, that watch the show because we love it, and that want to avoid the drama.

Though, I guess I did kinda dip my toe into the "drama pool" today, didn't I? But I see that as a stupid people thing in general more than an SPN fandom specific one.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is... you're safe with us, no matter what you want to say. :)

ETA: And I don't think it's coincidence that we all came from the same place and that we all had pretty well the same experiences while we were there. We're all sick of fandom wars of any kind, I think, and when you think about it, it's really not that hard to see why, is it?

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

Yeah.

What Bri said. Also, The Stupid you wrote about on your LJ? Isn't reserved only for SPN. It's fan-wide. Meaning, every fandom probably has their erm...I won't use the title I used on your LJ, but that kind of fan with ownership entitlements for the actors are everywhere. Jackasses.

I'm just enjoying what I'm seeing so far. I still haven't watched last week's episode, though. It's just entertainment to me. And that's what a DVR is for!

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Oh, I absolutely know that it's not just reserved to SPN. We came from SG-1 afterall. And have you seen the Smallville fandom? I don't even need to qualify that one LOL

Sometimes I like to get my thoughts out there. It feels good considering how much of a private person I am.

I'm glad that you are still enjoying the show. it should just be entertainment anyway :)

[jedishadowolf.livejournal.com]

Amen. Who needs the fandom wars? after the Ship wars, the Daniel vs. Jack vs. Sam vs. whoever...why on earth would you want to jump right back into that in another fandom?

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I really think there is something to being a fandom vet. People who have come from deep involvement in other fandoms have been there, done that. SO that carry that view into whatever the next fandom is. It makes us more cynical and cautious, but it also saves us getting burned.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

You know, there's a lot of us (and we all started out together in SG1, isn't that odd?) that don't get the whole "Brothers' War" crap, that don't understand why anyone could so vehemently hate either one of them, that watch the show because we love it, and that want to avoid the drama.

ETA: And I don't think it's coincidence that we all came from the same place and that we all had pretty well the same experiences while we were there. We're all sick of fandom wars of any kind, I think, and when you think about it, it's really not that hard to see why, is it?

That's exactly it. I wonder if people that have come to SPN from previous fandoms experience this. I would imagine many do, just based on this conversation. Interesting.

Drama pool? What happened? I'm behind on LJ and while I'll be reading it today, there is a good chance I'll miss a post or two.

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

What IS this about character competitiveness anyhow? Why should one be better or worse than the other? Is this a beer contest where one tastes great, and the other is more filling?

I'm staying firmly in the "it's for entertainment" mode, which is helping immensely. Also helps that I haven't watched every episode yet. And, although members of my flist tend to get passionate about this show (words to the contrary--everyone has an opinion about it), I also tend to take it all with a brick of salt.

And there are tons of other quality shows out there, too. It's too bad one of the just ended the other night too. I hate the networks. Booo, network suits.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I don't get character competitiveness. But it's been around forever, hasn't it? I imagine that people fought over who was better - Spock or Kirk - back in the day. I'm sure it went back even farther into other literature and times. There must be something in human nature that triggers it. Or perhaps it is a cultural thing.

I think people who are vets of fandom, whatever the fandom, who go into a new fandom come with that baggage and also the knowledge of how these things work. You know better not to get involved in the fandom wars and the stupidity. (Well, unless you actively like that sort of thing.) And the big kicker is that I don't consider myself involved in SPN fandom either. I just make icons, write sometimes, and post on my LJ. That's it LOL

And there are tons of other quality shows out there, too. It's too bad one of the just ended the other night too. I hate the networks. Booo, network suits.

Oh, I'm sure there are. But I mostly watch genre shows and so far, there hasn't been anything that I find both well written and acted AND something that grabs my attention. I'm so picky LOL

[paper-tzipporah.livejournal.com]

Wow, I...am really glad that I've managed to remain so completely ignorant of the crazy wank and negativity in fandom. I mostly just read a lot of fanfic, mostly stuff that's recced by people on my flist, and squee a lot. Yay squee! My best friend in Boston is also an SPN fangirl and not remotely involved in fandom, and she's a Sam!girl and I'm Dean!girl, but we always assumed that being on opposite sides would just make our epic fan love work out better. We just respond to different aspects -- like I'll sigh over how pretty Dean is, and she'll gush about how hot Sam looks when he's using his powers, and I don't really get it, but I love how she gets so excited about it. And yeah, the show really is about the TWO BROTHERS, not just one.

I'm sorry that you've had such a rough time with fandom, and if you ever want to have happy, positive, squee-tastic conversations with other fangirls, I am totally here for you!

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Yay squee!

Woohoo! I sort of imagine that phrase in the whole "hooray, beer!" from the beer commericals.

Contrary to what you might believe, I am really not all that aware of this fandom. I'm rather ignorant myself. But I am very good at teasing out info or picking up on opinions and I don't always like what I see. I fele this strong undercurrent of Sam vs Dean even in more friednly places. it's ingrained into the fandom.

I think anyone who came from a bad experience or was highly aware of one from a previous fandom becomes more sensitive to it going into another. I can only be thankful I stick to my flist mainly, and just do my own thing. I can't imagine what it would be like if I was actually "active."

One of my closest online friends is a Samgirl and I'm a Deangirl and the world hasn't ended yet...I think. We tend to get a better appreciation for the show too, since we have different opinions that come to the table.

TWO BROTHERS. Amen to that.

:)

[hot-craving.livejournal.com]

[quote]So, I just want to write fic that hopefully some people will like, but if not it's still there just for me. I want to make art and play with media. I just want to have fun.[/quote]

Here......Here....it is best that you like what you do and screw the world pardon my expression. I have found that myself I love to write stories but sometimes I find I am the only one enjoying them same with arts.......I guess it can be that way with groups. Enjoy what you do and .....you will be better for that. Thanks for sharing.

Re: :)

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Hi, I don't think I know you? Thanks for stopping by!

It really is to just do what you like when it comes to fandom and ignore the rest. I know I've been happier for it. But sometimes I can't help but think about it, you know? :)

Re: :)

[hot-craving.livejournal.com]

I got your link from google alerts LOL,,,,,,,,I know it is hard when you want to share your work and its not appreciated. Its like you put yourself out there and it does not seem worth it sometimes. ..........Just keep doing what you are doing it will all work out :)

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Oh honey!! I too, try to avoid the nastier aspects of fandom, air my opinions on my LJ and try to see everyone's POV. I too, am a hardcore Dean!girl and have never understood putting down one character to build up another. Sam can piss me off - REALLY piss me off - but I still love him, if only because DEAN does! They play the characters as human beings, and that's what draws me and still does. There would be no awesome dynamic without BOTH. Personally, I like the showdown between the two - just because they can't just let this stuff slide anymore. Most fans don't like it - but that's cool - it is just the story drawing me in, methinks.

As for the one-up-man, character put downs - that's just silly. It reminds me of the Jack and Daniel days - when Jack was being put down and trodded on ALOT - so I learned to avoid such stuff and went for only good fic after thatb point. Without one - the other wouldn't be - that's just how I see it!

*Cuddles you*

BTW, feel free to air whatever you like in your LJ honey - that's what it is there for - we're here to listen. Even if we don't always agree, we'll back you in your right to say YOUR opiece any day of the week!

*Loves*

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Both characters are very real - in terms of TV - and very human, so naturally people are going to feel closer to one over the other. And for people that feel the same affinity to both equally, more power to them :)

I'm loving the storyarc right now too. it's painful, very painful, to watch and to understand, but it's supposed to be. If we didn't care, the writers would be doing it wrong.

I think a lot of my experiences are shaped by the Jack and Daniel days. Something to think about, right?

Thanks *hugs*

[vella-amor-dm.livejournal.com]

i agree with everything you just said. a lot of people on my flist put up posts defending their opinions, and they shouldn't have to do that. fandom should be about fun and squeeing insanely, and usually it is, but there just seems to be so much controversy within this fandom -- especially against female characters ...

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Exactly. So, if someone likes Sam/Ruby, they shouldn't have to feel the need to explain why. They should just be able to love it. And other people should respect that in turn without feeling the need to walk on eggshells.

I'm not a Sam/Ruby fan, but I don't make it my mission to make it a huge deal, so I expect the same courtesy myself. Heh.

[vella-amor-dm.livejournal.com]

i know! i'm not going to name names, but back when i did my flist cut, someone was bashing ruby so much, and not only ruby, but gen as well - which i think is really unfair. i just don't understand why so many people in this fandom are intolerant D:

if i see things like that i don't comment on how much i hate it, just avoid, lol

[louisiane-fille.livejournal.com]

Hey, I hear you. I don't really get involved in fandom all that much because it gets so out of hand so quickly! (This is the fandom that thinks Wincest is awesome, for crying out loud!) Like you, I want to be able to enjoy my show without wondering if I'm offending someone with my opinion.

Please keep writing (and sharing!) your fics. I've enjoyed reading the things that you've written.