SG-1 Fic Rant of the Day

[moonshayde]

Someone please tell me what memo I missed that states that Daniel must be a whiny man-child who can't take care of himself? Or a lonely depressed man that must get away -- far away -- from this cruel world? Hmm?

Why do the majority of the fic that I find out there make him into this man that suffered child-abuse, needs lots of hugs and cuddles, and turns to Jack for EVERYTHING?

Am I missing something where he is always insecure about his place in the world and SG-1? That he has to always run off and hide because no one understands him? And then only through the support of his friends who search endlessly for him and after their impassioned accolades regarding his greatness, does he come back with them?

Once, maybe twice...not so bad.

But every other fanfic?

I obviously missed that memo.

Comments

[leenys.livejournal.com]

That's one reason I stopped reading SG1 fics. It's known as "Danny-whump", and I don't like Danny. I much prefer Daniel. Give me a real, intelligent characterization any time.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

To each her own. I don't have anything against people reading it and liking it. I just get bummed when I find it's the dominate form of fic and I can't get the characterization I want. There's fic out there for everytone if you look hard enough. But the Daniel I want is in short supply.

Then again, so is the Jack, and the Sam, and Teal'c who?

But, I was scared away by the sheer number of Shep/McKay slash out there, too, so there is no pleasing me.

[leenys.livejournal.com]

OMG it's rampant. But there are sites going up that are nothing but gen, and...

http://community.livejournal.com/stargategenrec/

a new community. :)

[autumndandelion.livejournal.com]

That's why I stopped writing. Nothing is original anymore.

[leenys.livejournal.com]

Lord, I said that last year and got my ass beat online. LOL!!

[autumndandelion.livejournal.com]

LOL!

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Well that shouldn't stop you from writing! Something that isn't "original" doesn't mean it's not good. It's all about telling it in your own way.

[seramercury.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I mean, I love angst as much as the next writer/reader, but sometimes it goes waaaay too far.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

waaay waaay too far ;)

[amycooper.livejournal.com]

So did I. Maybe Susanna ate them up on me to spare me the trama of reading it.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Susanna is always lookign out for you, isn't she?

[amycooper.livejournal.com]

She's a good cat.

[xayeidemon.livejournal.com]

I admit it. I've written some Daniel stuff that turns my stomach nowadays. I can't stand to read one overly sentimental story I wrote (and put online!). It had Daniel crying and Jack holding him while he whispered soothing words into the elderly man's ear. Daniel was an old man living alone in Jack's cabin, and Jack was a ghost or something.

Two days after writing that crap, I vowed never to do it again. I've chalked it up to a learning experience. ;)

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I think you might be able to get away with that one, though. One, it's not off on some missions in the here and now. Two, Daniel is old. I'm not saying old people are crybabies, but they've seen a lot, done a lot, and usually have more regrets than younger, brasher people do.

And hey, I've written some Daniel stuff that makes *me* want to cry.

There are lots of writers out there and everyone has their own tastes. Which is great! I'm just bemaoning the fact I can't find what I want. It's slim pickings ;)

[leenys.livejournal.com]

ROFLMAO at the icon!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

I think that if you don't like that type of Danny-fic (and I sure don't!), after a while you develop a sixth sense that helps you avoid it (I get very good at spotting them just from the header information) and find the stuff you prefer. Which *is* out there. Though, of course, in decreasing quantities these days. But, I sympathize. Because it's really depressing when you're in the mood for the kind of fic that *you* want, and all you can find is stuff that makes you question the way your brain is wired (... or, alternatively, the way the brains of the people who write/like it are wired...).

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Generally, I know where to avoid what I don't like. You get used to it after awhile. Though, trying to find places where there is stuff that I *do* like...now, that's a different story.

Mind you, I have complaints for fic regarding all the characters. Daniel is my punching bag today.

*punches him some more*

It's just that sometimes you have a hankering for a certain kind of fic and when you can't find it...argh ;)

[martyfan.livejournal.com]

I saw one like that this morning. Something about the first year as a team, Daniel getting a gift from Jack in the form of adoption papers, and him crying over it. *gag* I couldn't finish it. Daniel is over THIRTY, he doesn't need to be adopted by someone only nine years older than him!

And don't even get me started on all the "Daniel sees something on a mission that triggers intense flashbacks of being abused as a child" badfics.

I've managed to train myself to judge fics by their summaries. If there's lots of spelling and grammar mistakes, or it's something extremely corny, I don't give it a second thought. Most of the time, I manage to avoid the crap, but sometimes it's disguised relatively well. (That's another thing that I hate...surprise slash. Or any romantic pairing, really. If you don't wanna give it away, say in the summary that it's Daniel/surprise or something! Don't trick me into thinking it's genfic and then smacking me with the disgusting gushy "Oh I looooooove you" shit that comes out of left field.)

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Adoption papers???

Wow. Okay, so that is not how I read Daniel. Or Jack. I guess someone does and that's okay but...

Yup. Still not what I'm looking for.

And yes, surprise slash! No! Surprise het! No! If I want slash, I'll read slash. If I want het, I'll read het. If I want gen, I want gen. By nature, I don't like surprises, least of all in my fic.

*pats*

[martyfan.livejournal.com]

Word!

I think the worst instance of surprise slash I ran across, I was reading a relatively long fic that was good gen team interaction. I wasn't done with it yet, but I pointed some non-slash friends in its direction since I was enjoying it. (This was back when I was REALLY leery of slash. I've gotten over it, though it's nowhere near my favorite.)

Then I got to the end, and suddenly, after having no warning *whatsoever*, Jack and Daniel started making out. o.O I made sure to let my non-slash friends know where to stop before the slashy parts, since it was too late to keep them from reading the gen part.

Romance (slash and het both) can totally kill a good gen fic. The characters don't NEED to be having sex every other paragraph to make it a good story!

[amycooper.livejournal.com]

That always annoyed me too and I like nearly any pairing you can come up with in Stargate. I just don't think it's fair to pop ship or slash on someone without warning.

[sdani.livejournal.com]

Just out of curiousity, what are some of y'alls recs for fic with a Daniel written from a perspective of strength?

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I need to consult old stuff I've read for this one. But I don't necessarily mean seeing Daniel as a man of strength. I think their all strong (and weak) in their own ways. I just tend to like fic as close to the show as possible or for what I consider in character. And that goes for all the characters

hsapiens just recced some down below. I'll be checking them out. And I'll let you know what I'ver come across that I've rather enjoyed.

[sdani.livejournal.com]

I do know what you mean...

And also, it's not just the characters I love that I hate to see written so one dimensionally, but also the 'villains' as well. I like to see characters less well loved written in a way that you can kind of understand why they are they way they are, but still not agree with them/like them. You know?

Some fic that I've loved the most are ones that take a hated character, and conflict you because you wanna hate them, but still you can sympathise and almost understand them. Most of them that I've read have been in XF fandom, but I'd love to find some stories that take, say Pete, or Kinsey even, and really give them some depth.

[sela21k.livejournal.com]

I've seen some bad SG fic. I've noticed a disturbing amount of rape fic that is just too sick to talk about. *shudder* If Jack rapes Sam one more time...

The thing about not finding what you want to read is that as a writer, you are probably the one to write it. :D You know what you like. You know what we like. Write it - we'll read it.

[leenys.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm gonna hold you to that if I ever finish this story.

Kam :)

[sela21k.livejournal.com]

It's a deal! :)

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I don't know much about the Jack and Sam fic camp. I like friendship fics but I don't ship them. Jack rapes Sam? There is a lot of this fic??? Are these Sam/Jack fics gone wrong or are they...what are they?

*scrubs brain and mutters Jack wouldn't rape Sam*

But there's a tone of Daniel rapes Sha're fics. And so and so rapes Daniel. Actually, Daniel gets raped quite a bit. I think Sam does too. *mind boggles*

The thing about not finding what you want to read is that as a writer, you are probably the one to write it. :D You know what you like. You know what we like. Write it - we'll read it.

I appreciate that. But it's just sometimes you want to read something, you know? ;)

[sela21k.livejournal.com]

Usually these situations happen when they are infected with an alien virus, marooned on an alien moon somewhere, influenced by an alien mind - you get the picture. Never in their right minds.

I've never seen the "Daniel rapes" fics - I've seen some of the "Daniel gets raped" fics. The fact that there is so much of it is disturbing.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

No, no one is ever in the right minds, are they? I figured that is what you meant, but I wasn't sure. I'm sure some of them are decent, but I'm just in the camp that you don't need a bazillion rape fics to show angst. There are plenty of other ways to do it.

The Daniel rapes fic seem to come into play a lot in fics where he goes after Sha're and gets taken as a host by Apophis. This is a particular fave for that pairing. *shrugs* Whatever floats your boat. All other times I've seen it where Daniel is the rapee.

I don't know. I don't get it.

[amycooper.livejournal.com]

Ugh! That's horrible! Thank God I haven't come across any of that.

Usually I just come across fics where Daniel's treated and acts like he's all of 7 years old.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

GAAAAAAH! Doing Daniel this month for stargateficrec has been torture. (Get your mind out of the gutter, you know what I meant, heh). I find I have to repeat this to myself:

I will not rec sappy Daniel fics this month.

I will not rec sappy Daniel fics this month.

I will not rec sappy Daniel fics this month.

The problem is sorting through all the dreck to find non-sentimental Daniel fics. It's not that I like the sappy fics (and don't get me started on "Danny"), it's that my resistence is wearing down after coming across fic after fic...and ones I *like* are already rec'ced or I've just done that author *cough cough*you*cough cough*.

It's very, sigh, disheartening.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

It's a bummer when you find the same thing over and over. And like I said

It's just sooo hard to find the fic I like. The fic I want. And yes, it's all about me. I want fic I can read. It's disheartening when you see a characterization that you don't particularly agree with have the volume it does. It has a right to be there. And people ahve a right to like it. And that's fine. I have friends that like it and I am happy for them.

But what about me? :(

And this is why I won't be reccing Daniel anytime soon. Bwahahahaha.

[betacandy.livejournal.com]

I frequently get the feeling when I read SG fanfic that people are projecting themselves into Daniel. He's a character a lot of people can relate to for a lot of reasons, but the deeper they delve, the more their Daniel becomes like the author her/himself.

I'm aware of this projection process in my own writing (it's only natural), except for me it's Jack I most relate to. So I focus mostly on Daniel because I KNOW if I play too much with Jack, I'll turn him into me.

I think a lot of people are writing SG fanfic strictly for catharsis for themselves. That's absolutely fine - I just wish there was some way of avoiding those fics if they're not your thing.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I think people identify with Daniel because he tends to be the moral voice. So, I do agree that a lot of projection happens.

Sam and Daniel are hard for me to write in that aspect because I identify strongly with them. Mind you, I don't think I am terrible at them, but they take a little more work since either one can easily become me.

That is why I find writing Teal'c and Jack far far easier. I'm not like either one of them. There's distance there.

[sela21k.livejournal.com]

I write a lot of Jack or a lot around Jack. I center on Jack because there is so much under the surface that peeks out from time to time that there's a lot to explore.

The persons I find hardest to write are Sam and Daniel, but I love writing Janet, Teal'c and General Hammond. I wonder what that says about me? (LOL)

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I wonder what that says about me? (LOL)

That you're confused? LOL

I love writing Jack because I am fascinated by his character. And he is easier for me to write, for whatever reason. Whether it's because he's not like me or because he tends to have "your average joe" type of voice, I don't know.

Daniel is hard because Daniel is who I identify with the most. He also has similar interests. I study history and have degrees in anthropology. But I also have a strong scientific side, so I feel like I can relate to Sam too.

And then Teal'c is "foreign" so he has that different feel to him. You can do a lot with him in that respect.

Janet I am unsure of. Sometimes I think I have her and sometimes I don't.

Hammond is a hoot! Not enough Hammond fics out there. Have you written Hammond fics? Not like Hammond ship but Hammond gen?

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

I will not rec sappy Daniel fics this month.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. *grins*

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I have read too many Little Danny Lost fics to count. I've learned to ignore particular writers and whole lists because I don't find the stories interesting.

I'm not certain why there's a tendency to make Daniel such a spineless, emotional wimp. Anyone who can achieve all that he did prior to being recruited by Catherine, without his parents, rejected by his grandfather, never adopted, and without a support system like the military? Well, hell, I tend to think that he is probably the strongest of the four. So, no, I don't get the idea that poor Danny is so put upon and sad and must go off and hide...just, no. He has his weaknesses but martyr complex isn't one of them.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I think there are different tendancies with all characters, but since I gravitate toward Daniel. Maybe I am more sensitive to him.

And like I always say, I'm not condemning people who write or read these fics. It just would be nice to be able to find some different characterizations, some that are more in line with what I look for in a fic.

Then again, I'm a fairly strict canon writer so...

Like Urgo says, "Me, me, me, me me..."

It's just sometimes, I want to be able to pick up a fic and be like wow. That was really close to the show.

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

You've probably already read these two fics, but when I'm hankering for in-character gen SG-1 fic that feels like I've watched a particularly good episode (because who wants to read Emancipation??), I turn time and again to:

Meeting of Minds by SEF -- ties up a bunch of loose ends and offers an intriguing interconnection of past storylines

Hidden One by Gracie -- "SG-1 has found God - and everybody wants a piece of him." Excellent, excellent, excellent story. One of my all time favorites.

I can't rec you Duality since you're the one who wrote it. *grin*

Hidden One is, perhaps, my all time favorite SG-1 fanfic. I can't begin to rec it highly enough. My love for it knows no bounds....eh, you get the idea. I heart this fic. :)

Hopefully, at least one of those you haven't read and might hit the spot for canon-based, well-written, and strong character fic.

[cyren-2132.livejournal.com]

I think that memo was stapled to the Jack must never treat Daniel like an adult memo. I've read fics where Daniel wasn't a simpering fool, but Jack was treating him like he was 12 (which, I suppose is an improvement from treating him like he was 5, but that's probably what it would have been if the topic of choice hadn't been Daniel's sex life).

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Haha. Yeah, don't get me started on Jack.

Or Sam.

And, well, Teal'c usually doesn't have lines so I don't have much to complain about with him.

[parisntripfan.livejournal.com]

Great question.

I think that part of is that giving Daniel a really, really agnsty past is easy. Daniel is far from the only character in fandom I have seen this happen to I am not just talking about Stargate Fandom. In almost every fandom I have seen at least one, if not two, characters emerge as the favorite to not just whump on, but to emasculate.

I haven't read much SG-1 slash so I can't really speak to it, but in Voyager fandom then number of times I saw what I termed "the incredible shrinking Tom Paris fic" made wonder what show the writer was watching because it wasn't the show I saw on the screen week in and week out. I think that Daniel tends to suffer from the same problem. For some reason people want to see him as weak, even when as someone else said, given his past he, in some ways at least, is the strongest of the four. Now in some ways the writers of these fics may be trying to show that by making his past as horrible as possible and saying that he surived that, but that is not really needed. What the TPTB have given us over the years is enough.
The fact that Daniel stood up to entire academic community and contiune to preach what he knew to be the truth speaks volumes of his strengths.
The fact the Daniel lived off world for a year without support form Earth and managed in that time to become a leader within his new community within that year speaks to his strength.


Another reason I see this happening is that as been said that many writers indentify with Daniel. They may be projecting themselves onto him, or maybe they just want to mother him and do it through Jack. They want to have someone comfort him and forget that guys don't tend to hug each other as a form of showing support or "I am there for you." Guys are more likely to go out and have a few drinks or to go out and shoot some hoops or something like that.

I really don't get the Daniel needing hugs thing...to me Daniel is the least huggable character on the show. He has such this "zone of privacy" thing going on...Not many people can get that close (in terms of physical proximity) to him to give him hugs. This is not say that he doesn't care for the people around him, just that he is very protective of his space as it were.